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dz2001
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Rock Out Fail

Posted by dz2001 - July 20th, 2007

Armor Games held many contests before and they were all based on NG score, locked after 1000 votes. When I first heard of Rock Out contest I thought it to be the same and got really motivated after seeing the ultimate crappiness of flash entries by that moment. I was absolutely sure that I would be able to make a game that would score better and get into top 10. And actually did it. Judging by the score I was supposed to be #3-5, there were three games with the same score of 3.75: my Velocity (that ended up #18), Incubus Pulsum (#2) and The Pick of Destiny (that did not even get into top 20). There were only 2 games that scored higher than 3.75.

So here we come to
The First Reason why Rock Out Contest is a failure: They could not use NG score system, that worked so well before, this time.

They say that the scores were manipulated. Which means that there were mass votes to lower the scores of competitors. Judging by the fact that AG admin kept tracking scores of all games on this page I presume they were going to use those to determine the winner at first. Were the scores so fucked up to discard this method? I have no idea...

So how was the top 20 formed? When I asked about that I was told that they used combination of things to determine the winner.

"Prizes will be awarded based on the following: Score, # of Views, Originality, Playability, Graphics, and Addictive Game Play." is what The Rock Out page on AG site says.
Since score criteria was discarded and # of Views only tells us how long the game was on the portal and if it was shown on the FrontPage thus only Originality, Playability, Graphics, and Addictive Game Play are left. Can they be measured in numbers? NO! All those are very subjective and vary from person to person. For instance I hate Incubus Pulsum and still consider it the worst game of all that had a chance to be among winners, but thats just my opinion It can not really tell you the real value and quality of the game. The only thing that could was the score.

Here is the top 10:
(the first score and votes are current and the second are from AG Rock Out page)

1. Ongaku (3.99 / 3,929 votes; 3.98/1000 votes)
2. Incubus Pulsum (3.59/3000; 3.75/1000)
3. Headfirst To Hell (3.66/1170; 3.62/1000)
4. 1812 Overature (3.72/1500; 3.65/1000)
5. Monsters of Rock (3.39/324) again nice graphics, silly ddr concept.
6. Transmigration (4.06/2529; 4.02/1000) [!!!!!]
7. Insurgio (3.37/258) barely after judgment, wtf is this doing in the top 10?? Oh wait. It was submitted 07/16/2007 PAST THE DEADLINE
8. -Play the Game- (3.39/335) Past the deadline again 07/16/2007 | 05:42AM EST
9. BoM Beat Battle (3.62/494)
10. Galactic Invasion 20XX (3.53/305) Well at least it's not a fucking DDR-thing, though I did not notice any synchronization with music. How do they tell a rhythm based game from a game with music?

I presume that combination of things was just several people deciding which game goes where. And this kind of judgment is subjective and unfair by definition.

The questions left unanswered: how come this combination of things made Incubus Pulsum the second, me #18 and kicked The Pick of Destiny out of top 20 while we had the same score. And there are games with the same gameplay as Incubus Pulsum but better graphics.
What is wrong with this combination of things that it placed Transmigration to the #6 positions? Along with Ongaku these are the only two games that were not crap and actually deserved the price because they were awesome and original (not sum ddr crap), and not because the other submissions were even crappier.

They can come up with something like: this is not really a top all the 10 games are equally good and receive the same price but that just would be silly and make the contest fail even more.

But was there any way to judge the games fairly after the ng score method was discarded? No, I dont think so =\

Well since the games were judged by what I presume was personal opinion I would like to share mine. Which bring us to

The Second Reason why Rock Out Contest is a failure: Low quality of entries & lack of ideas

This one has nothing to with its organization. Its about you making crappy games. More than a hundred of worthless flashes. Some had really nice graphics wasted on a stupid idea, copying each other. Whats up with all the DDR games? What were you thinking? Who would enjoy pressing buttons without any real reason. Of course there are exceptions: Ongaku for instance is a very good game, I actually felt the music wile playing it and it was beautiful too.

And before you would start arguing about this I would like to share a secret with you. If the game scores less than 3.65 its a crap not worth attention. My judgement is based on experience as a player (Im visiting newgrounds everyday since 2001) and as a game developer (lol, my MMM is still in top 50 :P ) And dont tell me that the score is low due to abuse and mass votes to lower the score, it did not really affect the cool games - Ongaku and Transmigration, did it?

IMO all those who made primitive DDR, copying each other have failed. Haven't you seen what decent music based games look like? How about these:

Short Circuit
Cosmic Fozmik
Punk-o-matic

So my verdict is: the only two games that were worthy of a contest held by two biggest flash sites were: Ongaku and Transmigration. Also Headfist to Hell has very nice graphics but the concept is still kinda silly.... nonetheless it looks like a lot of effort was put into it.

Whatever....

Comments

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Penboy

You should be a Flash detective.

JonBro

What the last guy said.
I think what you said was pretty accurate. Nice job pointing all that out.

xboxbob11

Interesting analysis. The 'Rock Out' contest did feel like that in someways. Most of the entries were pretty much knockoffs of pre-existing rhythm games. Well, at least there were two entries that actually deserved recognition.

icarus

You had much of the same thoughts as me- This contest was a failure from the word go in my opinion the genre was WAY too restrictive and caused a blatant lack of originality in games not to mention how hard it is fro game developers to try and sync a game with music.
AS fro not joining a contest again I wouldn't recommend it, AG holds some great contests and normally they are based on a locked-in score like you said so I (and you should to) will be keeping an eye out in the future.

dz2001

>the genre was WAY too restrictive and caused a blatant lack of originality in games

The genre was not restrictive really. Its the authors. They could not think of anything but a DDR, no fantasy at all. Or was it just laziness?

>not to mention how hard it is fro game developers to try and sync a game with music.

It is not hard at all if you know what you are doing. Without a plan and knowledge of action script and general flash everything is hard.

>AS fro not joining a contest again I wouldn't recommend it,

I prefer sponsorship. No risk at all.

brokenjoe

From the begining Armor Games never said it was based on score alone. And the Newgrounds score is no real sign of a good game. Just like the movies, that's no determination of quality. The score reflects what some people thought about it. Not everyone who watches or plays a game is gonna vote. This sounds more like you're complaining because you didn't win first prize. It's an Armor Games contest, they pick the winners based on whatever they like. You had an equal chance at making a game but they didn't love it as much as you did. Don't be a soreloser. Everyone who made a game for this contest thinks they should have won first prize, but we can't all win. I don't care how much time was put into something or how nice it looks, it doesn't automatically make it a good game. Or else everything that comes out for the Playstation is better than anything on the NES, which is not true. Sometimes simple game play and just a fun game is all you need. Transmigration isn't a game by the way. It's a nice animation but it's not a game. Newgrounds didn't vote on the games to win, it's Armor Games money let them do what they want with it. I hope they have many more contest, and if you don't want to participate then good, you're just another competitor out of the way like anyone else.

dz2001

:From the begining Armor Games never said it was based on score alone. And the Newgrounds score is no real sign of a good game.

I'll quote again: "Prizes will be awarded based on the following: Score, # of Views, Originality, Playability, Graphics, and Addictive Game Play." And AG admin kept tracking of the scores once there were 1000 votes. The score was supposed to be a very important factor.
Also do you know that AG held a lot of contests during past years with prices much bigger then today? 8000$ in the last one. And the winners were chosen basing on score solely. Thats why I entered this contest. I thought I knew the rules and I made my game according to this.

So dont tell me that ng scpre does not mean much.

:Don't be a soreloser.

This is not about loosing really.
Have you read everything I said? I did not mention my game as one of those worthy of winning.

:I don't care how much time was put into something or how nice it looks, it doesn't automatically make it a good game.

True. This is a crapfest. With only 2-3 entries that are worth playing. Mine is not among them.

:Transmigration isn't a game by the way. It's a nice animation but it's not a game.

Its far better then any of the DDR stupidity clones. It is far more a game then any of those button smashing things. It is at least enjoyable, thats why it scored 4+.

:and if you don't want to participate then good, you're just another competitor out of the way like anyone else.

I'll go with the ordinary sponsorship. AG pays quite well.

wtfuguys

say what you want, I really liked We are Legend.

dz2001

good for you

Glaiel-Gamer

That's the risk you take when entering a contest man.

"Since score criteria was discarded and # of Views only tells us how long the game was on the portal and if it was shown on the FrontPage thus only Originality, Playability, Graphics, and Addictive Game Play are left."

"The questions left unanswered: how come this combination of things made Incubus Pulsum the second, me #18 and kicked The Pick of Destiny out of top 20 while we had the same score. And there are games with the same gameplay as Incubus Pulsum but better graphics.
What is wrong with this combination of things that it placed Transmigration to the #6 positions? Along with Ongaku these are the only two games that were not crap and actually deserved the price because they were awesome and original (not sum ddr crap), and not because the other submissions were even crappier."

Now you go and smash Incubus Pulsum, yet praise Transmigration. Let's see here.

Originality: Both are fairly original in there own right.
Playability: IP was a GAME. Transmigration involved no more than just pressing spacebar over and over for a few minutes.
Graphics: Both had good graphics
Addictive Game Play: Transmigration had no game play because it was a movie.

Seriously dude, chill. You won a runner up prize for your game ok? It was a decent game, so be happy you came in 18th place out of 111 entries.

The contests are MUCH BETTER when they don't base it on score. In past contests, downvoting would destroy the scores of any game submitted to the contest, save for the EXCELLENT ones where there's enough people voting 5 to counter those downvoters. Then again, it does effect the score a little.

Your game wasn't original, coolio did stuff like it weeks earlier. My first game was similar in concept to yours (and a lot less laggy). It was a dodge game ok? Graphics were decent, playability was hindered due to lag.

None of the top games were bad, ok? I'm not saying yours is bad or anything. But you keep bitching about only coming in 18th place, so I can slam your game just as much as you slam my game. Nobody likes a sore loser. I came in 6th place in the newgrounds monthly voting 4 times I think, and about 3 of those times I lost due to HENTAI GAMES! Did I bitch about that? No. When you enter a contest, you need to be prepared to lose. I've learned not to expect to win, because when you expect to win then it just makes it that much harder on yourself when you lose.

dz2001

>That's the risk you take when entering a contest man.

no, thats loosing because the rules were changed
I've been observing all AG contests and expected ng audience to decide who is best, as it was in all the previous contests.

>Now you go and smash Incubus Pulsum, yet praise Transmigration.

I judge by enjoyability. I enjoyed Transmigration and hated Pulsum. Judging by the score a lot of people felt the same way.

Thats just my "combination of things". Is not that the same as all the flashes in top 10 got their places?

>Seriously dude, chill. You won a runner up prize for your game ok? It was a decent game, so be happy you came in 18th place out of 111 entries.

I already accepted that I lost. I am not demanding anything here. Just want to tell everyone what I think about this contest. And testing the new "post news on the frontpage" system. It needs tweaking. Why cant I place the image above the text??.. thats silly.

>The contests are MUCH BETTER when they don't base it on score. In past contests, downvoting would destroy the scores of any game submitted to the contest, save for the EXCELLENT ones where there's enough people voting 5 to counter those downvoters. Then again, it does effect the score a little.

Worked very well in all the previous AG contests. With huge prises like 8000$
How else would you rate a game? By someones personal oppinion? Thats the same as me telling you that Incubus Pulsum is a crappy game.

>Your game wasn't original, coolio did stuff like it weeks earlier. My first game was similar in concept to yours (and a lot less laggy). It was a dodge game ok? Graphics were decent, playability was hindered due to lag.

I know. It is the worst game I ever made, lol.

And it was supposed to be that way, I was aiming for the best score in this crapfest, among other crappy games that I myself would never play. (and it worked, I did it)
If I knew that score would mean nothing in this contest I would not bother trying. I would have finished MMM2 by now.

>None of the top games were bad, ok? I'm not saying yours is bad or anything.

Then let me say it. They are all actually very bad. Except for those two I named.

> I've learned not to expect to win, because when you expect to win then it just makes it that much harder on yourself when you lose.

This is not about expecting. This is about having this numbers http://www.armorgames.com/rockout.html on hand. There are only 4 games that scored higher then me. Thats if I assume that those who scored the same are better.

h0m0

Stop whining, boy.

dz2001

I have nothing else to do at the moment.

afrodave

Cocks.

dz2001

desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu

Glaiel-Gamer

">That's the risk you take when entering a contest man.
no, thats loosing because the rules were changed
I've been observing all AG contests and expected ng audience to decide who is best, as it was in all the previous contests."

The rules were stated before the contest began. You should have read them. Besides, they obviously did take score into some consideration, they just didn't focus the entire contest on score because of all the downvoting that goes on.

dz2001

I'm not blaming anyone (besides the fuckers who abused voting) or demanding anything.
I'm just stating that this contest is a failure.

Coolio-Niato

I believe that Incubus Pulsum and PLAY the GAME were also created well and deserved the top 10 too.

dz2001

who are we to decide?

the only fair way to decide which game deserves which place was to base it on score (any voting, including more than a thousand votes)

the could not do it because of whatever reasons they had

thus I conclude the contest was a failure
it is that simple

YoshiFtJ

Could you add a pause feature? My co-worker and I played the second one at work and we would suddenly need to minimize the game and without the pause we would lose the wave.

If you can, thanks a lot ;)

YoshiFtJ

Opps, switched to the wrong page. That was for MMM3.

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